[WolvenLordSoulReaper]

I have an idea on this topic as well, but I LOVE encouraging m.b. participation so... here's the question... Why do gigai's always appear the same as the Spirit Body? Tell me what you think...

[Archbound]

Because it is easier to use your body than it is to use someone else's i would imagine. If you are used to being a certain height with certain length arms having different dimensions would throw you off and for someone who can be attacked at any moment that could be dangerous.

[Avissa]

ok, there's my idea, with a slight analogy to pottery making.
let's suppose a gigai is like a huge piece of clay, which can be put into desired shape by a shinigami reiatsu (of course it has human body shape from the start - gigai i mean). When a shinigami gets into a gigai, it takes exactly the same "shape" as his spiritual body, then by using reiatsu the gigai is sort of baked, and once it's made it stays like this forever. So rukia's gigai will always look like rukia, renji's like renji etc etc...
(huh, that was difficult, had to use dictionary a couple of times...)

[WolvenLordSoulReaper]

Originally Posted by Archbound

Because it is easier to use your body than it is to use someone else's i would imagine. If you are used to being a certain height with certain length arms having different dimensions would throw you off and for someone who can be attacked at any moment that could be dangerous.

But if you're a soul to begin with, these dimensions would be not factors, as you never entered into a human body before. However, I actually agree with both of you, though I phrase it just a little differently: I believe the image exhibited by the gigai is the residual traces of what they looked like and how they acted when they were alive (I chose to assume that no one's shikai(?) exists without having been in a meatsack to begin with. (Yes, I know that's a derisive term for a gigai, but it seemed fitting to represent the natural human body as well.) This seems the simplest way to explain both the appearance of a shikai (I hope I'm using that right), and (bonus freebie), why people apparently age in the Soul Society. (I know this has been addressed prior, but I haven't actually read those posts yet, and will work on that right now... But this is still a good basic premise I believe, as my guess is that this is still the case, as any pretense at aging we may have seen in the series (manga series included), and I'm not recalling any in particular right now, would be ceremonial at best. And before anyone throws Nell out there, I don't count that, as their are obvious variable factors to consider there, one of which is that I don't view Arrancars, Vastos, Adjuchas etc. to operate on the same principles as Soul Reapers. (And this is a good topic for discussion, so I'll start that thread post haste...)

[Archbound]

Originally Posted by WolvenLordSoulReaper

But if you're a soul to begin with, these dimensions would be not factors, as you never entered into a human body before. However, I actually agree with both of you, though I phrase it just a little differently: I believe the image exhibited by the gigai is the residual traces of what they looked like and how they acted when they were alive (I chose to assume that no one's shikai(?) exists without having been in a meatsack to begin with. (Yes, I know that's a derisive term for a gigai, but it seemed fitting to represent the natural human body as well.) This seems the simplest way to explain both the appearance of a shikai (I hope I'm using that right), and (bonus freebie), why people apparently age in the Soul Society. (I know this has been addressed prior, but I haven't actually read those posts yet, and will work on that right now... But this is still a good basic premise I believe, as my guess is that this is still the case, as any pretense at aging we may have seen in the series (manga series included), and I'm not recalling any in particular right now, would be ceremonial at best. And before anyone throws Nell out there, I don't count that, as their are obvious variable factors to consider there, one of which is that I don't view Arrancars, Vastos, Adjuchas etc. to operate on the same principles as Soul Reapers. (And this is a good topic for discussion, so I'll start that thread post haste...)

First of all, Everyone is Soul Society was a Human at one point in time. Secondly no they are not in flesh and blood bodies but their spirit bodies do have the same dimensions if they didn't what are we looking at? The gigai keep the same dimensions as their spirit bodies so no movement problems occur, like having short legs then having long legs would throw you off.

[WolvenLordSoulReaper]

Originally Posted by Archbound

First of all, Everyone is Soul Society was a Human at one point in time. Secondly no they are not in flesh and blood bodies but their spirit bodies do have the same dimensions if they didn't what are we looking at? The gigai keep the same dimensions as their spirit bodies so no movement problems occur, like having short legs then having long legs would throw you off.

The problem occurs with the idea that the shikai have no actual dimensions per se. If you operate under this premise, then it becomes a difficult matter to to assume that a spirit, which has no forms or features, can operate smoothly the minute they find themselves in a physically constricted form. The idea that someone who was spirit to begin with, might have a need to attain visual 'features' is a little ridiculous, as spirits don't really have a need for identity. Ergo, my assessment that spirit features are residual imprints from the 'living world'. (Yes, I realize that the spirit bodies having distinctive features in a 'real world' context is so that we the viewer, reader, etc. can identify one from the other, but I'm attempting to explain this from the context within the Bleach universe's dimensions. And yes, I have WAY too much time on my hands.) by the way, I can also back this up from the Bleach universe itself. If you watch the Bount Invasion arc, Renji is constantly struggling with the ability to enter into and remove his shikai from his gigai. This is because he's been almost completely spirit bound his whole life. (I think the episode defers it by saying that Renji's too lazy to do it properly or something, I don't quite remember) but that's an additional assessment.

[myname_989]

Originally Posted by WolvenLordSoulReaper

The problem occurs with the idea that the shikai have no actual dimensions per se. If you operate under this premise, then it becomes a difficult matter to to assume that a spirit, which has no forms or features, can operate smoothly the minute they find themselves in a physically constricted form. The idea that someone who was spirit to begin with, might have a need to attain visual 'features' is a little ridiculous, as spirits don't really have a need for identity. Ergo, my assessment that spirit features are residual imprints from the 'living world'. (Yes, I realize that the spirit bodies having distinctive features in a 'real world' context is so that we the viewer, reader, etc. can identify one from the other, but I'm attempting to explain this from the context within the Bleach universe's dimensions. And yes, I have WAY too much time on my hands.) by the way, I can also back this up from the Bleach universe itself. If you watch the Bount Invasion arc, Renji is constantly struggling with the ability to enter into and remove his shikai from his gigai. This is because he's been almost completely spirit bound his whole life. (I think the episode defers it by saying that Renji's too lazy to do it properly or something, I don't quite remember) but that's an additional assessment.

yeah, i agree with this entire thing. the main reason that Kubo
uses the characters from their past life in the "living world" is
so that we can distinguish them, just like Wolven said. From a
different perspective, it would certainly be interesting if they
changed the gigai all the time, it would throw their enemies off..
along with their allies...haha

[WolvenLordSoulReaper]

Originally Posted by myname_989

yeah, i agree with this entire thing. the main reason that Kubo
uses the characters from their past life in the "living world" is
so that we can distinguish them, just like Wolven said. From a
different perspective, it would certainly be interesting if they
changed the gigai all the time, it would throw their enemies off..
along with their allies...haha

Be glad I'm not in the Soul Reaper universe. If gigais were like desktop wallpapers or Avatars, I'd have a new one ever twelve minutes or so. However, it does bring up another interesting question: Do gigais ever wear out? If not, then why? (From Rukia's reaction to her gigai's loss of abilities, we might have to assume they don't. At the very least, that option never seemed to enter her mind. But I guess we can also factor in that the gigai she was using was relativel 'new', so to speak.)

By the way, my first 'gigai' doesn't count. It was the only Bleach image I had on my computer at the time (I don't save the images from the web to my desktop, I just wallpaper usually directly from the web. It's a real pain, though, if I forget where I found a fav wallpaper.) Consider much like Kon initially robbing Ichigo's body. It was the only available option he had at the time.

[Theinen]

nah, wouldn't throw off enemies and/or allies. they can still sense reiatsu remember?

but that's a very interesting point u made. but the reason they gave for renji having a hard time was because he didn't just pop in an artificial soul like the others, he just tried to jump out.

but that sounds good and i can kinda agree with you on that except one thing, in theory, if that's the case, then the artificial souls could potentially change the shapes of the gigai. or what would happen if they got them mixed up and got in each other

sounds good, but here's a theory too. it's for the same reason why kubo makes them like that. when urahara has to make one, he models it after them, sort of like a custom tailor-made suit lol. besides, it seems all shinigami get confused on the whole gigai thing unless they've been doin it for a while

but in a scientific approach, u kinda dead on

[WolvenLordSoulReaper]

Nice post. For clarification, my premise was that a shikai's reiatsu (of course, this gets a little hairy, as I'm assuming the shikai, in the Soul Society, is pure reiatsu); gets poured into a gigai much like water is poured into a vase.

In Archbound's first post, the premise was that a shikai in a gigai that wasn't made for it would somewhat unbalance the shikai, as the shikai would not be familiar with that specific form. Archbound then went on to say that the shikai formed the gigai as it so desired.

My premise is reversed on that: I believe that the gigai is fixed, and that the shikai can then 'flow' into it effortlessly, so that even if Rukia's shikai were in Renji's gigai, she could still effectively maneuver. (Yes, I know... that's a creepy illustration.)

BTW: Thanks for reminding me about Renji's inneptitude in handling his mod-soul. I couldn't remember what it was all about, but yeah, that's it. (And for the anal-retentive: I know, I know... technically they're not mod's.)

However, it seems that my initial premise was not quite clearly understood in the first place, so I'll clarify; Basically my premise would make for crappy Bleach episodes, because my premise is that everything in the Soul Realms would no longer contain a need to generate an image. The people, the buildings, the seiretei, the sokyoku: all of that would just be so much energy, if you could even call it that. If anything was animate, it would communicate to others via some etherial transmissions we can't even begin to understand. 'Rukia' would talk to 'Renji'; but we wouldn't 'see' them, nor could we hear them.

Ergo; Rukia, being little more than Spirit Energy, would not look like Rukia... more like... Slimer(?!) NO! RUKIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA A!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!