[Tsubamex]

Originally Posted by seeliespright

I don't think Mana was an elf. And he wasn't actually Allen's father, supposedly - but when we were reading those chapters, there was a discussion of the possibility that Mana was actually Allen's true father, even though he said he wasn't. I don't think he was Allen's real father, mostly because it seems pretty ridiculous and unnecessary to go through such contrivance. Similarly, I don't think Mana was hired by Cross, but I will grant you that he may have come to Allen on purpose, knowing Allen's importance, and didn't just happen across an abandoned boy.

Cross and Allen are most certainly important, and it is possible that both are descendants of the 13th Noah. Unlike anyone else, Cross is able to make Akuma change their nature and become "good" - although the mangaka glosses over the little bit about the souls being lost after they can no longer restrain their Akuma nature because Cross programmes them to self-destruct when that happens. (And from Allen's encounter with Rhode, we know that when an Akuma self-destructs, the souls are lost. Btw, I miss Rhode; she was awesome.) Allen, of course, we know is very special - rare in his parasitic Innocence - and even rarer due to the great concern his Innocence displays for him, and the great power he is able to attain through it. Also, the Earl indicates that he's the only one to survive turning his loved one into an Akuma (I'd certainly think so). Further, Allen was cursed with the soul-viewing eye, and we have found after Rhode's damage of it, that it evolves just as his Innocence does.

Now that I'm discussing it, I wonder if Allen's Innocence will continue to evolve or if it has reached its maturity. The Director (Rinali's brother) named his Innocence and officially registered it, so presumably it is in its final form; and Allen has already synched above 100% making him a general. Surely his eye will continue to evolve - or be honed in its skills, but I don't know if his Innocence will also change. (I hope not because I like it in this form. I'm not a big fan of the sword, but I love his Crowned Clown mask and most of all, his new hand. I think it's drawn so well, and with his new costume and hand, Allen just looks amazing. (I also started lusting after Allen - well, not started - my lust for Allen "evolved" when he attained his mature form.)

Tiki Mick will always hold the primary place in my [strike]lust[/strike] heart however.

hmm...i could've swarn he was an elf...but yeah, Cross probably didn't hire him, he probably just knew about Allen, but i dont think it was coincidence that Cross came right after Mana died, he could have just been sensing his innocence, and yet, Cross knew about the 13th Noah stuff so, i dunno. I dont think Mana was ordinary either though, just because we dont see his face. I dont think he's real father either, that would just be stupid XD

I miss Rhode too, she was one of my favourite charcters along with jasdebi and Tyki Mikk, i was reallydepressed in the middle section when they killed, made evil or changed all of them! ;_; thatwas so sad.

XD i think Cross and Allen have some connection, and yes, i hadn't thought abput the fact that the akuma self destructs, XD they gloss over a lot of details about Cross , i suppose its partly because we dont know much about him yet.

I hadn't thought about the part with his eye actually, its a bit like Mana implanted a second innocence in him, or something else that can evolve.

Have u read the last chapter yet, ;_; poor Rinali! i feel so sorry for them all!

[seeliespright]

Originally Posted by Tsubamex

hmm...i could've swarn he was an elf...but yeah, Cross probably didn't hire him, he probably just knew about Allen, but i dont think it was coincidence that Cross came right after Mana died, he could have just been sensing his innocence, and yet, Cross knew about the 13th Noah stuff so, i dunno. I dont think Mana was ordinary either though, just because we dont see his face. I dont think he's real father either, that would just be stupid XD

I miss Rhode too, she was one of my favourite charcters along with jasdebi and Tyki Mikk, i was reallydepressed in the middle section when they killed, made evil or changed all of them! ;_; thatwas so sad.

XD i think Cross and Allen have some connection, and yes, i hadn't thought abput the fact that the akuma self destructs, XD they gloss over a lot of details about Cross , i suppose its partly because we dont know much about him yet.

I hadn't thought about the part with his eye actually, its a bit like Mana implanted a second innocence in him, or something else that can evolve.

Have u read the last chapter yet, ;_; poor Rinali! i feel so sorry for them all!

Yeah, I wonder what Cross' motivation was in taking on Allen as his pupil. Cross is not the sort to be a "mentor" and I wouldn't think he'd just take on some boy out of pity. So, he clearly knew Allen's potential and wanted to be sure he'd fostered that.

Rhode was so awesome. I loved the way she dressed and acted, and made Lero nervous all of the time. Even though she was evil, she was awesome. And her love for Allen: Amazingly adorable!

I never did like Jasdebi and so was glad to see it go. Rhode's death was pretty awful also, and I was very sad to see it. :(

I think glossing over the detail about the Akuma self-destructing was the mangaka trying to avoid that after she already put it in. I don't think it was a matter of creating mystery surrounding Cross. But I do wonder how he got that power.

As for Mana and what you said about implanting an Innocence: Mana wounded Allen's eye and cursed him, so it was actually the opposite of Innocence. If you remember, when Allen first went to the exorcists' tower, the door couldn't see into him, and consequently thought he was an akuma. Also, Allen's eye evolves like the akuma do (as we have been told); and curiously, although not related, is that his Innocence evolves, but I guess that's something that happens with all of them). So, Allen being able to see the souls above akuma and his evolving eye is an akuma-related dark curse, and not anything to do with the Innocence.

Actually, Rhode stabbing out his eyeball was sort of the spur that initiated the evolution.

I did read the latest chapter (Blood and Chains). Right now I'm not enjoying them a great deal because there is too much carnage. I liked the earlier chapters better because they were more sophisticated (i.e. the entire plot with the Noahs) and interesting. I'm hoping we will get back to some of that same character after they vanquish this Level 4. In my opinion, they can't do it soon enough. Also, they need to make sure that no more akuma evolve to Level 4, although I don't think that's fesible.

[belldandyxx095]

Originally Posted by seeliespright

Yeah, I wonder what Cross' motivation was in taking on Allen as his pupil. Cross is not the sort to be a "mentor" and I wouldn't think he'd just take on some boy out of pity. So, he clearly knew Allen's potential and wanted to be sure he'd fostered that.

Rhode was so awesome. I loved the way she dressed and acted, and made Lero nervous all of the time. Even though she was evil, she was awesome. And her love for Allen: Amazingly adorable!

I never did like Jasdebi and so was glad to see it go. Rhode's death was pretty awful also, and I was very sad to see it. :(

I think glossing over the detail about the Akuma self-destructing was the mangaka trying to avoid that after she already put it in. I don't think it was a matter of creating mystery surrounding Cross. But I do wonder how he got that power.

As for Mana and what you said about implanting an Innocence: Mana wounded Allen's eye and cursed him, so it was actually the opposite of Innocence. If you remember, when Allen first went to the exorcists' tower, the door couldn't see into him, and consequently thought he was an akuma. Also, Allen's eye evolves like the akuma do (as we have been told); and curiously, although not related, is that his Innocence evolves, but I guess that's something that happens with all of them). So, Allen being able to see the souls above akuma and his evolving eye is an akuma-related dark curse, and not anything to do with the Innocence.

Actually, Rhode stabbing out his eyeball was sort of the spur that initiated the evolution.

I did read the latest chapter (Blood and Chains). Right now I'm not enjoying them a great deal because there is too much carnage. I liked the earlier chapters better because they were more sophisticated (i.e. the entire plot with the Noahs) and interesting. I'm hoping we will get back to some of that same character after they vanquish this Level 4. In my opinion, they can't do it soon enough. Also, they need to make sure that no more akuma evolve to Level 4, although I don't think that's fesible.

wow you two had a whole conversation and a really long one on this......thingy.....you typed alot hhahahaha

[Tsubamex]

These messags are beginning to get really long now, plus we know we're talking to each other, so i didn't see any point in quoting the message. Is that ok? ^^

Yeah, i quite liked jasdebi, but when they combined they looked really stupid. They died stupidly too, but i found it funny when they were going after allen for his cross's debts XD

how did rhode die again? i really can't remember that part, because i was more concentrating on what else was oing on and also sometimes the pages get really hard to see XD but i really hated that rhode died, she was the best =3 i love characters like that they're just so evil and sweet at the same time. You find you want to strangle them but hug them at the same time XD

Allen didnt even scream when his eye got skewered by her it was quite strange, plus if she loved him why would she skewer his eye? one perverse love if you ask me XD

Im glad his eye evolved afterwards though, its much better with his new eye and costume ^^ but i dont really like the new chapters with the level 4 either, it keeps on killing all the exorcists off. Also, they scarred the beautiful body of Kanda! How dare they! What kind of stupid mangaka burns one of the fangirls favourite characters? do they have a death wish? XDD

[seeliespright]

I know what you mean about the posts getting too long with the quotations. I was going to suggest we start a private conversation, but we're talking about a lot of plot points that other people may have difficulty working out (or have forgotten) so I figure it's alright to keep it on the public thread.

The only way for Rhode to be killed was if her true form in her dream world was killed. So, after she brought Lavi into her dream world and screwed with his mind for a while, and revealed the way to kill her, Lavi eventually realised that Rhode's true form in the dream world was Allen. He stabbed Allen in the dream world, who was really Rhode, and the knife pierced out from her chest and killed her. Then apparently Rhode hadn't died fully; and I get a little fuzzy here. After that I remember the last scene of Rhode all burned up - basically a skeleton dressed in her clothes - and she said "Allen" then collapsed into a pile of ash.

As for Rhode skewering Allen's eye: I think he cried out in pain when she did it, although perhaps not screamed. The thing is, his arm was already skewered in like 6 places and he was in excuciating pain. I don't remember the momentary reason why she stabbed his eye out, but she was evil, so it's not really surprising or out of character.

It was her love for Allen that was strange, but I think it was something that illogically developed when she came to respect and admire him. (And it was a perverse love.) The Noahs had emotions and did sympathise with humans. If you recall, Tiki Mick was hanging out with humans before the Earl called him into service. And Rhode and Tiki cried when Electricity Noah Man died (I don't remember his name, and don't much care since I found him annoying).

They were a strange bunch and I miss them.

I don't remember how badly Kanda was burned, but I imagine it's something that will heal. He has that curse on him (momentarily) capable of healing mortal wounds. It's running out, as the Director indicated in their phone conversation, but I think it still has a few more times left for healing him. So, he may be pretty and unscarred again after all of this is finished.

[Tsubamex]

wecould start a private conversation if you want to, i suppose it isn't really fair on people, but then we are talking about DGM so i shouldn't think it'll matter that much.

I remember how she died now, thanks^^ that was a really strange part in the manga when Lavi was in her mind, i love how everyone was zombies, it was really funny, especially the bookman XD when he had to stab Allen i was really sad, and then i found out thatit was rhode, and not some imaginary Allen in her mind and i was even more depressed XD that the way to kill her was to kill allen was also perverse, yet sweet in some ways thatare really difficult to explain XD it was definately a perverse love i'll agree

I really didnt like the lightning noah, out of all the noahs, he's the one i hatedthe most, i was really glad when he died, but mostly concentrating on the fact that Kanda had just died XD i think that makes it now that all the main exorcists have died at least once (cept Lavi and Miranda i think, coz they weren't technically dead, and neither was rinali, but i dunno, i can't really remember, the plot moves on so quickly, but i know they all almost die a lot of times XD.)

I really miss the noahs too, i wonder what type of noahs are going to replace them, i know that theres that new one that attacked the science department, but i really don't like her. I hope there's going to be some cooler ones, because she was way to normal to be a noah in my opinion.

[seeliespright]

I didn't like the new Noah either. I generally tend not to like the evil characters who distort into monsters (and you know which ones I mean since they're everywhere O_o). I hope we get another awesome Noah like Tiki, but don't anticipate we will. And now Tiki is ugly or at least we don't get to see his pretty face now that he's that dark creature. Maybe they'll resurrect Rhode - that would be awesome, but I know it won't happen.

I hadn't realised that about all of the main characters dying. It's totally true, and the injuries that Allen has suffered are just ridiculous. He was hit several times early on in the manga (I can't remember them all), then Rhode stabbed his eye out and punctured his arm multiple times, then that fallen exorcist bit his hand all up and caused Allen to use up all of his power, then Tiki dissolved his arm and sicked those killer butterflies on him, now he's been blasted by the Level 4.

I'll post more later on my next break...

[Tsubamex]

yeah, i know what you mean, i hated that noah, but i probably hated her because she was like the usually, pretty yet super evil with no redeeming qualities to her stereotypical baddy. I loved characters like Tyki and Rhode, mainly because they were all really diferent, and their personalities were awesome. I wish Rhode would come back to, if only Allen had brought them both back at the same time that he brought back everyone else from the ark, then i would've been really happy. I suppose it would be a bit stupid to bring your enemies back to life though, i don't think even allens pity goes that far XD

Yeah, i've been noticing for a while that all the characters have been dying, i mean, at least one dies every 10 chapters, or sometimes less. In fact, i think 10 chapters is probably the longest the mangaka has gone without seriously injuring somebody XD its probably as little as every 4 chapters that someone doesn't get hurt (minorly, but people don't really get hurt minorly in DGM)

I really liked the tease, because they're really pretty, but then they creep me out a bit as well >< its probably the name, and the look of evil that Tyki had on his face while he was putting it into his heart.
As for all Allens injury's i think it will take forever to ;list them lol, i mean he was hit by a hammer by his own master, from just about the first page, in fact i think it was about the 5th, but ever since that he's been attacked a lot of times, and come back to life because he's special, then crushed, then skewered, then crushed some more, beaten to a pulp by just about everyone and then had to endure Komui's drilling of his innocence in order to fix it each time! Allen's life sucks! i reckon he should retire to some island somewhere XD but then thinking about it he'd probably find the island that happened to be the noahs lair, or an island where they were testing nuclear missiles XDD poor allen.

[seeliespright]

Originally Posted by Tsubamex

i reckon he should retire to some island somewhere XD but then thinking about it he'd probably find the island that happened to be the noahs lair, or an island where they were testing nuclear missiles XDD poor allen.

or Japan O_o;;

[seeliespright]

Everything was so complicated and beautiful in the Noah plot arc. The ark was so beautifully designed, and the dream worlds of Rhode were - if not beautiful - very interesting. Also the plot was a sophisticated interweaving. Now it feels like we have been returned to the beginning with the bulbous akuma that Allen has to slice or blast; and the manga isn't particularly interesting.

I found interesting the various states of evolution for the akuma. They first start out in human bodies, but turn into those bulbous machines. Then they take on really strange forms (the whirly armed guy, the multi-formed clown thing, the ice wench) in the second level. Third levels have humanoid forms, relative to the second level. Although when they combine into large creatures, they become really goofy and awkward looking. Now fourth level akuma are a mix between the humanoid third level and the oddly shaped second level. They're like evil dolls, a strange parody and distortion of the human form.

With all of the trouble they're having with the Level 4, I hope we never see a Level 5. I don't know how long the mangaka is planning to continue the series, so I can't say if we'll only get this high, but if it has a ways to go, we'll probably see further levels of evolution.

Allen's eye is supposed to have evolved also, but so far, it has only gone through two new forms; and I don't know how it could change from now on. (I'm mostly glad he has his eye back at all because he's so cute, and didn't look cute _at all_ without an eye.)

Now all we need is for Rinali to grow her hair back...