[WolvenLordSoulReaper]

Coming off of The depth of Misa's Character thread, it was discussed how disappointing many felt about the proper use (or lack thereof) of strong female characters in the DeathNote manga. I want to open this thread to discussion concerning that very topic. Simply put; did you like the women in DN? If yes, why; if no, why not? And what more do you think should've occurred with each woman's portrayal in the story? Fire Away...

[MikamiTeru]

I actually did like the women characters of the story.
All of them, they all served their purpose in the storyline just like every other man and just about everything else.

I think the story went off without a hitch. And it just wouldnt have been the Death note we know if it was changed in anyway. Sure we all think some characters are annoying, whether they were male or female.
But the little and big things everyone did made Death note.

[dragoonv76]

i do agree that all the women in this manga did serve a purpose in this story...but they all seem to be used by the men in some way or another.

light manipulated misa and that reporter chick, additionally he basically tricked naomi into her grave
L hired that spy chick
Mello kidnapped and used light's sister as hostage
Near had that fbi chick working for him.

now...i dont think i missed anyone one...but did any of them actually do anything for themselves?

[WolvenLordSoulReaper]

That said, Light tricked everybody and in (no pun intended) light of that, Naomi Misura got it off a lot better than Raye Penbur, her fiancee who was also manipulated into an early grave, but not before being tricked into killing all the other agents with a piece of the DeathNote. Naomi Misura could go top heaven... Ray Penbur couldn't, (leaving me and my sister anxiously anticipating the return of a vengeful shinigami to kill Light... alas...)

L hired that criminal man, as well.

Mellow was also controlling and using the mafia members, as well as in some controlling and manipulating Light Yagami himself while Mellow held his sister hostage.

Near also had several male agents working for him, all of who (save lester) ended up dead. At least Hal Lidner survived. (Though one could argue that Mellow was also using Hal as well.)

Look at the small amount of women used to make the males 'look good' in Death Note: Misa Amane, Naomi Misura/Penbur, (and I have a really ahrd time even considering that, because Naomi was portrayed as a much more complex character than Raye Penbur, who seemed like little more than a typical real life filed agent without any extremely out of place talents or characteristics), Saiyu, Takada, Hal Lidner (I'll discuss why in an upcoming thread dedicated to her and one question everyone had to be asking when they saw her interactions with a particular member of the D.N. roster), and Wedy. (Am I missing anyone?)

Now, not counting men used by other men or men used by women in the D.N. story; let's see how many men were simply used by Light alone, falling into two different categories:

Patsies: (Men used by light as pawns, without their conscious knowledge or co-operation,
Acolytes: Men who drank the Yagami Kool-Aid and liked it.

Patsies: Shibwimaru(?), whoever the freak on the bike toasted by Light to 'test' the D.N. in the anime was; Raye Penbur, who killed the entire roster of F.B.I. field agents on the case; Souichiro Yagami; Aizawa; Mogi; Ide; L; Aiber; Mellow; Mellow's thugs; (I don't count Matt, Light never used him to complete an objective, but I will point out that Mellow employed Matt, thereby 'using' him); Shidou, a male Shinigami (earlier I didn't count Rem in the females, as she held her ground fairly decent up until Light's last strongly calculated blow which resulted in her death, but even that was of her own volition); President of the United States; Vice President of the United States; Takimura; any criminal used to make a point or message; etc.

Acolytes: Demigawa; Matsuda; Mikami Terru; Station Reporters across the board; Hikugi; All of Yostsuba; etc.

[Flash Master]

I would like to take this time to discuss a female character which I have to say is more complex than most people know and sadly, they probably never will. A tribute to Sachiko Yagami. This is a woman whose entire life was directly controlled by Kira and she did not even realize it. To most people, she probably looks like the ditzy yet lovable soccer mom who always put her family first. Ok, Light didn't play soccer. obviously. Did we ever see those days where after thankfully keeping herself busy making a meal for a family that probably would not even be at home to enjoy it, she would wait up for her husband or later her son, then, she would cry herself to sleep. Perhaps the only reason she disliked Kira ( assuming she did) was because it took her family away from her. In a point in her life where she should have been celebrating with her family graduations, first dates, proms etc, she was instead waiting for more bad news. It is probable that she never even turned on the radio or T.V, so she wouldn't have to hear of the Kira case. In the end, it took her husband's life her daughters mind, and her son's very soul. I would have liked to see the angry side of Sachikko. The burning hurt welling up in her heart . The resentment against Kira, L and her husband. Still, she remained kind hearted and ever loving to her family, determined to keep them together. A pure heart as I will always think of her. Yet it makes me wonder, how far would she go to save her family?? Would Sachiko have used the Death Note to protect her family had she known of it. How would she have dealt with Light? I believe that sachilko knew more about Light than either of them realized. I think she noticed his strange quirks and dismissed them as adolescence or boys just being boys. But a mothers heart cannot be fooled. I believe she knew Light was Kira, not so much as a common fact but an unrecognizable feeling. Deep down, I believe both Sachiko and Souchiro knew. Sometimes it is harder to see what is right in front of us than to imagine what we cannot see.

[Rjina]

Originally Posted by MikamiTeru

I actually did like the women characters of the story.
All of them, they all served their purpose in the storyline just like every other man and just about everything else.

I think the story went off without a hitch. And it just wouldnt have been the Death note we know if it was changed in anyway. Sure we all think some characters are annoying, whether they were male or female.
But the little and big things everyone did made Death note.

Tada! It's been an eon since I've posted anything... Did you guys miss me?
Ryan, I'd have to say I'm pretty impressed. I leave for a while, I come back, and you're still actively turning up ideas (as expected).

I think I've made a thread about this, (though it's initiative was discussing Misa... the whole thing sort of branched out into a "Death Note is sexist" thing) but it must have drowned due to all of this new threads (happiness!).

Every woman plays a part. But the part they play is the bit that might seem questionable. And we cannot assume anything extensively deep with these characters, because their opinions and reactions are so hideously mundane. They act as they should, molding into their archetype. It's much more reliable to discuss them in terms of plot and concrete citing.

...I must say, though each woman/girl is necessary for the storyline, a few changes wouldn't be unappreciated... And I'm speaking for Misa's behalf. Personally, she's everything that I'd hate to be... perhaps my bias is limiting my perception... And yes, there is no doubt that Death Note is sexist. It just seems that way. Or, like the entire manga itself, is this "sexist" trend actually a hidden metaphor?

[WolvenLordSoulReaper]

Originally Posted by Rjina

Tada! It's been an eon since I've posted anything... Did you guys miss me?
Ryan, I'd have to say I'm pretty impressed. I leave for a while, I come back, and you're still actively turning up ideas (as expected).

I think I've made a thread about this, (though it's initiative was discussing Misa... the whole thing sort of branched out into a "Death Note is sexist" thing) but it must have drowned due to all of this new threads (happiness!).

To address why this thread even exists you can check out my reply to the thread you mentioned in your post, but a simpler explanation is that I did not feel I should hog your Misa thread with what is, essentially, a completely different topic altogether. And in regards to your comments on the women of DeathNote (see how catchy that is:-), I humbly disagree in certain regards. As I mentioned here prior, many more men were far less functional in design and capacity than the women, who were fairly fleshed out and, in some regards, maybe even a little too fleshed out. After all, it was Naomi Misura who seemed to have the complex deductive abilities to take Light out in the small conversation she had with him. Sadly, her life was cut way too short for us to see any extensive play of wits that could have further expanded the story in one of the most shockingly detailed, yet excessively short character build-ups in all writing history. (New writer's looking to become established are taught a cardinal rule of them with supporting characters; make them nteresting enough to be interesting, just not interesting enough to really get attached to. The writers of DeathNote gleefully smashed this rule repeatedly and made all of womankind suffer for it. But then again, Matt was the most intricate short-lived character in the whole series, next to Naomi, so you really can't argue sexist there, either.)

I think in some small way, you could even argue that each woman that was incompletely played or fleshed out had a male counterpart of the same caliber. Some men weren't even that lucky, as Raye Penbur was just an everyday cookie-cutter field agent with no outstanding credentials. (Which I'm glad of, because I'm tired of seeing super agents posted everywhere just because a work falls under the fiction category. Real men doing real jobs, that's the way a fed should be portrayed today, but not really stupid like they do in the t.v. seriesCriminal Minds, that ticks me off also.) Naomi/Matt; Kiyomi Takada/Makami Teru; Aiber/Wedy; Saiyu/Raye Penbur; Misa Amane/Matsuda. Each one receiving similar amounts of time as the other and each being used as a specific function in the overall plot device. Two lived, but tey are not correlated due to the basis of their functions being dissimilar, they were grouped with those who served a likened function, and for a similar timespan. Hal was not addressed at all, as I will be devoting a thread to her as there are several unique factors concerning her which have been grievously overlooked, in my mind.

Now, Mikami, I promised you that I would explain why I could argue that Naomi never really died, so here it is... (Speculation only, and it'd make a great one-shot); Although the 'How to Read' lists a date of death for Naomi, the anime made it clear no body was ever found. Why was this? (Yeah, yeah, Light orchestrated etc.); It was because Naomi handed over the license of identification with picture and name... of her recently deceased twin sister!! (Yeah, it's a stretch, bu not by much considering the D.N. universe.) Once Naomi realizes Kira's designs and powers, she has to regroup and rethink, which she's in the process of doing when it all goes to..., yeah, you get it.)

Anyhow, to summarize my main point: Just as many men, if not more, were used by Light/L/Near/Mellow, as women were. It was mostly about making those four look cool, and everyone else took a backseat in the end. That's my story, and I'm stickin' to it:-)

[ravstrike]

As all of the users of the death note were male or influenced by a male, could a female have become Kira (in the exact manner as Light) or is the aggressive use of the DN inherently masculine (only males killed on the large scale on their own accord)? Would a female Kira have to be feminized (i.e. story of Light made girly or using stereotypical female activities and situations)?

[WolvenLordSoulReaper]

Or could one argue the serial killer stereotype; primarily young angst driven teenager misplaced in today's rigidly ordered and influential society?

P.S.: MY 200th POST!! Yippeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!! (BTW: Rav, 400+ since about the same time I started posting... do you even sleep?:-)

[Flash Master]

Let's not forget that Misa was the second Kira without having confirmed knowledge that the real Kira was actually a man. She just assumed Kira was male. This does spawn the question, could a female Kira have accomplished what a male version would? No offense to the ladies out there, but I believe there are only a handful of women out there who could accomplish what Light or even L in his capacity as lead detective could have. Please remember that I am not saying that there are NO women who could do it, only that there are few. The reason for this is for the same reason you see less serial killers who are women in the real world. Woman are complex, beings who function on emotion. They are designed to nurture. ( THAT DOES NOT MEAN THE WOMAN'S PLACE IS AT HOME WITH THE KIDS, unless of course they want to be.) It simply means that women make decisions intellectually, but inevitably, their emotions will generally factor in. Not many women could have orchestrated Raye Pembers death without remorse instantly taking hold and perhaps upsetting the entire plan. Even if that were not enough, once encountering Naomi, the end result after hearing her story would be a complete confession and shared tissues. Yes, that is a dramatization. PLEASE UNDERSTAND! I do not embrace such emotional ties, however, it would be pointless to argue that a large percentage of women could not successfully become Kira. I also have three words that will make L, Near and Mello wet their pants and cry in a corner. KIRA ON P.M.S. Good thing the Death Note has never ending pages. Anyway, Misa was not a good example as her mistakes were too numerous to count. Now give Naomi the Death Note. Now that could be interesting. Men may be more logical than women but women are far more cunning than men and can be waaay more vicious. mabey we should be greatful Kira was a man! ::' ( Please note that I do believe that any women can do anything a man can do IF THEY PUT THEIR MIND TO IT and vice versa. With the exception of pregnancy of course. This is only my opinion and I apologize if anyone takes offense.