[yasiru89]

I'd personally classify this as Shoujo, but no one would agree of course. Its because beyond all the horrific stabs it's in essence about love and coping.
I don't think any of it was fan service. Even with [SPOILER] Nyu grabbing Yuka it just contrasted for me Lucy's violence and Nyu's innocence[/SPOILER]

And in quite a different vein- what's wrong with fanservice? as long as it doesn't detract from the story its just simple-minded fun- who the hell would get off to something like that? (surely people haven't gotten quite THAT desperate?) Seinen fanservice sometimes makes things more realistic even (emphasis on sometimes!).
If anything beyond just the innuendo is called for there's always the tried and tested hentai!

[Mitsuzaki]

Theres certaintly a lot of stabbing and decapitating.. But theres not enough stabbing and decapitating..

[Beth732]

Ok...

All of us that have either watched Elfen Lied or read it know that it's really not good at all for little kids. I mean... If you were a 4 year old would you like to see people being ripped apart and blown up? I think not (Unless your the spawn of Hitler).

What you've got to realise is that the level of violence and intensity along with the nudity is too extreme for younger viewers and even young teens. My display probably says otherwise, but i'm actually only 13 and i watched the whole Elfen Lied series last year. I was jibbering under my blanket for a week. The starting theme song was enough to make me cry. I'm a strong person and i bet if i introduced Elfen lied to my friends or even my Senpais, they'd be scared beep less as well.

[milchtea]

Originally Posted by yasiru89

I'd personally classify this as Shoujo, but no one would agree of course. Its because beyond all the horrific stabs it's in essence about love and coping.
I don't think any of it was fan service. Even with [SPOILER] Nyu grabbing Yuka it just contrasted for me Lucy's violence and Nyu's innocence[/SPOILER]

And in quite a different vein- what's wrong with fanservice? as long as it doesn't detract from the story its just simple-minded fun- who the hell would get off to something like that? (surely people haven't gotten quite THAT desperate?) Seinen fanservice sometimes makes things more realistic even (emphasis on sometimes!).
If anything beyond just the innuendo is called for there's always the tried and tested hentai!

there are shounen/seinen mangas that are also about love/coping, but that does not mean that they're improperly labelled. shoujo just means mangas targeted towards girls. definitely not this manga. i mean, naked bloody women, mutants, pedophilia, incest, rape, underground conspiracy theories, torture, murder, homicide, explicit gory scenes? those are things most girls shudder to think about.

[yasiru89]

Originally Posted by milchtea

there are shounen/seinen mangas that are also about love/coping, but that does not mean that they're improperly labelled. shoujo just means mangas targeted towards girls. definitely not this manga. i mean, naked bloody women, mutants, pedophilia, incest, rape, underground conspiracy theories, torture, murder, homicide, explicit gory scenes? those are things most girls shudder to think about.

Really? Well its all too 'lovey dovey' to be a shounen or seinen. All the so called 'evil' themes simply serve to accentuate what is at heart romance! Whereas a good shounen/seinen like say, Monster handles such issues head on.

What you've got to realise is that the level of violence and intensity along with the nudity is too extreme for younger viewers and even young teens.

All this fear of nudity and violence; its just lame. Sure they can be powerful emotional catalysts; but anyone can grasp the theme, whereupon it is nothing more than a very strong Romeo and Juliet (which girls like, oui?)

Besides, Diclonius aren't humans per se- would you call a dog or bare mannequin appearing in something 'nudity'? I think not. But here, most people do- which is a 'side-effect' more or less of the author's intention of trying to question what it means to be human (and settling on love). Technically though- no nudity!

[seeliespright]

Shoujo is classed as shoujo because it is published in a shoujo magazine, shounen shounen for the same reasons, etc. Granted, shounen titles share similarities with one another, as do most titles within the same genre. But if you're going for strict classification, you have to look at how they are published in Japan. Cfr. Matt Thorn - He's a scholar and of the same opinion as I am, also a student of modern manga.

[crisrj214]

There are a lot topics bouncing about this thread. First off, the nudity like has been mentioned before gives Elfen Lied a more realistic touch. Concerning the Diclonii at the facility - they were kept nude so they had nothing within range to use as a potential weapon.

As for the nudity with Mayu; think about it. Which would strike you more? A suggestive dialouge mention of the event? or An actually scene displaying the event?

When it shows them in the bath talking. The discussion Mayu and Nana had was an essential part of the show. Since, at that time the others did not know about Lucy, the bath would have been a convenient and private place for them to discuss the issue.

I think the scenes depicting Nyu groping on Yuka and having Kouta squeeze her breast were to show Nyu's childish side a little better. It showed her true innocence and not just her lack of knowledge. I felt that every part of Elfen Lied played an important role.

[yasiru89]

Originally Posted by crisrj214

There are a lot topics bouncing about this thread. First off, the nudity like has been mentioned before gives Elfen Lied a more realistic touch. Concerning the Diclonii at the facility - they were kept nude so they had nothing within range to use as a potential weapon.

As for the nudity with Mayu; think about it. Which would strike you more? A suggestive dialouge mention of the event? or An actually scene displaying the event?

When it shows them in the bath talking. The discussion Mayu and Nana had was an essential part of the show. Since, at that time the others did not know about Lucy, the bath would have been a convenient and private place for them to discuss the issue.

I think the scenes depicting Nyu groping on Yuka and having Kouta squeeze her breast were to show Nyu's childish side a little better. It showed her true innocence and not just her lack of knowledge. I felt that every part of Elfen Lied played an important role.

I quite agree on that front.

As for shoujo/shounen or seinen- suffice to say, if I pulled the strings at Hana to Yume, I'd take up publishing Elfen Lied as a shoujo series!

[sworddancer]

Originally Posted by hyuugaspwn

Excessive violence and sexuality throughout, its properly classified as seinen. And what's the old geezers comment about? I'm not even 20 yet!

I agree that the violence and nudity keep Elfen Lied, both the manga and anime, in the Seinen realm. However, I don't think that is the definitive feature of Elfen Lied and what defines it as Seinen. A quick note about the nudity - my take is that it is not particularly for fanservice - anybody who is sexualy arroused by children needs to spend some serious time in jail. Rather, the nudity, particularly for Nana and Nyuu is symbolic of the duality of their characters - there is a seemingly contradictory true that both innocence and brutal aggression can co-exist.

Now, back to the main question. Elfin Leid is clearly Seinen. I am not saying that because I am a smelly old bastard. For me, Elfen Lied has a very deep and often emotional message...and I should say messages, rather than singular. Deep and abstract concepts about love, redemption, nilism, and aggression are prevalent throughout the manga. Similarly, the relationships between the various characters are deeply potrayed and have a number of adult themes - and by adult, I do NOT mean sexual - that are usually only hinted at or absent in shounen manga.

my two bits

Sworddancer

[Vladimir II]

Originally Posted by HunkyDory

Actually...to be perfectly honest...I've seen more girls read this than boys. o_O So...yeah.

Also...seinen is for young men, generally ranging from 18-25, not old geezers. o_O Get your facts straight.

Personally...I don't like all the sexual stuff. o_O I think it's too good of a story to be wasted helping desparate men get off. -_-"

I agree with this dude -.-