[Jelly]

I recognize that this sort of topic has been made before.. repetetively.

But I have what other topics lack.... COHERENCY ;DDD
See, other topics ask 'What is better?'
But I... I will TELL you what is better. Fwahaha >DDD
I'm sorry for creating a repeat thread but from what I can see of all the other ones, they've mostly disintegrated into 'I LOVE KANAME' 'NO ZEROOOOOOOOO IS BETTER!' etc etc. Also, most other topics ask which couple is better. I'm asking which character is better. I'm not really asking for opinion, I'm asking for a literal discussion of why a certain character might be superior in the end whether it be getting together with Yuuki or simple life ;] I'm also putting everything in the first post so there will be no repeats~~ Let's spark some intelligent (coherent!) talk here~

Let it be known that I am inclined towards Kaname.

Ahem. Let's begin.

ZERO

Negative Argument: He's an emo child who pays too much attention to his gun in an attempt to compromise for 'something' (hint-wink-hint). He's rather selfish, constantly showing his anger that Yuki is with Kaname and even going as far as to threaten a pureblood.
Okay, yeah it shows that Zero is all cool and doesn't care about authority but guess what it also means? n___n; It means he's quite stupid. When there's someone who's obviously above you and has the power to save you, you SHOULD NOT act that way against him. He constantly harms Yuki even though he knows he should and he then proceeds to attempt to justify it by telling her to shoot him EVEN THOUGH HE KNOWS SHE WONT. I mean, it's pretty obvious at this juncture that she's too much of a wimp to do it, no? This is arguable. People will say that the part where he almost let her choke him to death contradicts my statement.
However, if you think about it, he's extremely selfish. He knows how Yuki will feel after his death but he lets her do it. Yuki's the sort of person who would prefer to be obviously scolded rather than be given the 'I'm disappointed in you' act. If he's hoping that 'time will heal all'... then that just means, once again, he's stupid.

Zero is an overdone character. SERIOUSLY. How many shoujo have YOU read that have the strong, silent type who EVERYBODY (in the manga or in real life) likes despite that the fact that he's a total jerk?

People who are defendng Zero by saying that Kaname is a manipulative jerk who has to be twisted to devote such time making Zero into the ultimate weapon... well. It looks like Chatper 40 has revealed that he really doesn't mind. He drank Ichiru's blood to make himself stronger. There would be no reason to do that unless he WANTED the power himself so I guess all Kaname did was facilitate this.

Oh and the fact that he's possible going to turn into some insane creeper who looks like he's been locked up in a basement for thirteen years and is currently surviving on a mixture of uncooked oatmeal (aka Level E) doesn't help.

There's so much more I could say but that's the gist of it.

Positive Argument: Okay, I have to say that gun is pretty hot XDD;;; He makes a wonderful distraught character, adding a whole other thing to VK. He does try to protect Yuki and is remarkably sweet in his actions. I can also so that's he's amazing when he's with the horses. Everything from his expression to his words is... -falls over- beautiful. It's so... reali o__o; He doesn't use other people so heartlessly just for his own desires so in a way, he's more 'human'. This is a really big point here that I would like to make. Zero TRULY acts human even though he's the one closer to being a monster. Kaname pretends to act human even though he's the one who has a full grasp of his mind. I personally adore this contrast and I really love Zero's part in it. He often expresses his true emotions towards other people and if he keeps it from them, it's usually for a good reason and usually not for that long (Kaname's constant leading on gets really.. irritating sometimes). He does manage to get through his problems, being strong and all that. The fact that he preservered for four freaking years, slowly changing into a vampire is amazing enough that even Kaname concedes to it.

Okay, Zero drinking Ichiru's blood was good. It showed that he's less stupid than he appears. He's finally going to be put to use~~

If anybody would like to add to either of these sections.. COHERENTLY, especially the Positive Argument bit, then go ahead. I honestly can't come up with that many reasons that Zero is good.

Now for Kaname.

Negative Argument: Okay, irritating vampire who acts like he knows everything and is a total jerk about said information. He draws Yuki on and on, hinting at bits of everything until she's begging for him to tell her. I don't know if it's just because he likes the attention or what.. I found the way he treated Zero quite bad. I mean, to have the... will to carry on something like that.. to use a human life and cause so much suffering should be unforgivable. He's possessive towards Yuki, bordering on obssession and he goes extreme measures to make sure that she remains his. He knows how certain things will affect her and he works on them. He is quite selfish (arguable) and only works for his own desires rather than trying to help others.

Kaname might also be somewhat of an overdone character (not as often though... this is NOT biased D;.. I think). He's the charming, suave rival to Zero's tough love (once again, beautiful beautiful contrast).

Positive Argument: Kaname is also extremely attractive, as is Zero. He's a pureblood so he doesn't need a gun to kill. He has authority. Alright, past the physical.
He loves Yuki. He really, truly loves Yuki and anybody can see that. His blatant admission of this is admirable. He's brave enough to admit it, unlike Zero. Even when she's still a human and it would be severely frowned upon for the two of them to get together, he obviously still loved her. Everything he has done, he has done for her. Even if it's the whole thing with Zero, it was for Yuki. Some people may call this obssession but I find it... tragic. He does so much for her just in hopes that she will be safe, that she will be happy but she doesn't even know.

He's not exactly that possessive. He lets Zero have his go at her and he doesn't stop the two of them from interacting like Zero does to him and Yuki. People have said that Kaname is too perfect and he is therefore unreachable as a character. I will then direct people to the part where he bites Ruka. Perfect? I think not. The way he slaps Aidou. Perfect? Noooope. etc.

YES he's manipulative. YES he's controlling. He's also SMART. He can't help but be anything otherwise, having grown up the way he did. Kaname handles authority very well, controlling the ranks of nobles easily and not letting outward things affect his original goal. Everything he does, he is clear about what he wants. Even when he's being a total jerk and drawing Yuki along with those irritating hints, it's because he wanted something and was working towards it, not due to indecisiveness.

I suggest you read milchtea's post on the bottom of the second page.

POPULAR CONTROVERSY

Zero is emo.
He saw his whole family killed before his eyes and his brother is now trying to kill him. Doesn't he have a right to be?
Uhm... note how Kaname saw HIS family killed before his eyes by his uncle and had to watch his sister turn into a human and forget her favourite brother (correct me if I'm wrong... Chapter 38 confuses me). He didn't have the greatest childhood, what with everybody trying to use him or eat him. And guess what? n__n; Kaname doesn't show it off.
Ahah... but Zero has suffered so much more than Kaname. He's been undergoing a painful transformation of four years, resisting the urge of blood. He's had to put up with everything else, all at once even while he's suffering.

So does that justify his consistently distraught face? Hm...

Kaname is TWISTED and MANIPULATIVE
Kaname's also a more original character. While I agree it was kinda.. mean of him to use Zero for four years, guess what that shows? Dedication~ Meaning he'd be the perfect man for Yuki because he'd never deviate. I find this part of Kaname rather attractive, actually.

[insert name] has HISTORY with Yuki
Okay this is just silly.
Both of them have history with Yuki. Kaname, admittedly, has more but that doesn't make it any better than the one that Zero and Yuki share.
Yuki is obviously one of the very very few people that Zero likes and the way he took care of her when he was younger is adorable.
The way Kaname and Yuki interacted was also adorable. I mean.. come on = =; He was such an amazing friend to her but it was more... fairytale sentimental wherease ZeroxYuki was more human.


Kaname is Yuki's brother. INCEST!
I was under the impression that discussions for Chapter 38 had brought round the point that Kaname is not actually Yuki's brother.
Assuming that he IS actually Yuki's brother and he's just spouting off more mysterious nonsense, it really doesn't matter. They need to maintain the purity of their bloodline and as you can see from both Yuki and Kaname, reproducing when one is a vampire doesn't give you deformed children. Other incest mangas operate on the idea that it is taboo. For humans.
Remember to take into account the different species >_>;

If you want to add anything, tell me ;D
I tried not to be biased but I don't think it turned out right XDD;;

And tell me they weren't meant to be together...
KanamexYuki
ZeroxYuki

[jalil]

Gee..took me five minutes to read and digest that giant-essay-like-post..(Do I have to make an essay here?)

You have raised some very important and mostly overlooked points on your post, and I have to agree that when somebody starts a thread about those characters..it disintegrates into a full-blown word war (people tend to forget that these are manga characters)..Which is dissapointing actually. Both of them have cons and pros as a character..the other one posses what the former lacks..in other words; they compliment each other. But, I don't want to take sides here, seeing as I have been doing that for the past 100 or so posts. So let me get my point here..(reading that post of yours reduced my thinking power by 75%..gosh)

Who is better? To answer such a question you must set aside your own personal preference and opinion. Evaluate each character and weigh down the options. Then ask yourself:
1. Who has more grasp of reality? You have to be honest, don't let personal preference cloud your judgement.
2. Physical appearence aside, who has done more and contributed more to the popularity of the manga? (Does this question make sense?? My head is still fuzzy from reading a very long post..)
..and more importantly don't base your argument by their physical appearance..that is not an argument at all!

Okay now..I'll stop here a bit because my head hurts!!

[Jelly]

LOL.
Well I must commend you for being able to go through all that @__@; I assumed people would just skim. Have a slice of watermelon.

Alright, I realize that the physical appearance doesn't matter since all of Hino's characters are pretty. It's just there becuase I KNOW someone will mention it = =;

In response to your questions, I would have to say neither of them have a grasp on reality. In reality, there is no such character has Zero. Nobody would like him if he's always so harsh and a normal girl would have abandoned him by now, much less letting him drink her blood. As for Kaname... doing what he does is extremely unlikely. There is not a person who, if so desired, would not take at least a bit of what he wants.

Both of them have contributed equally. To the Zero fans, there would be no such fans if Kaname didn't exist and vice versa.
So in the end, I suppose it'll probably revert to a battle of opinions but I agree with you; people should look at this more objectively.

[jalil]

Originally Posted by Jelly

LOL.
Well I must commend you for being able to go through all that @__@; I assumed people would just skim. Have a slice of watermelon.

Both of them have contributed equally. To the Zero fans, there would be no such fans if Kaname didn't exist and vice versa.
So in the end, I suppose it'll probably revert to a battle of opinions but I agree with you; people should look at this more objectively.

Thank you! Thank you! Can I have a mango shake instead? HEHE!

I just had enough of all those posts out there that flames characters..It is utterly dissapointing. Not to mention embarassing (at some point)

[LynFay]

wow.
i think you two just covered all the squares.
just for the hell of writing this, (i'm ACTUALLY DOING MY ENGLISH ESSAY *cough*) i'll say that this whole manga is full of clieches (spelling is wrong: i know) but seriously, why do things become cliche? (hah. i think that was betta) it would have to be because its good stuff! so this manga, using the typical types of characters and some, is actually really interesting! And i think that everybody loves Zero because he's so totally a-typical. it's predictable, the way he will react, but everybody loves wat he does anyway.

Oh, yeah. you NEED to read the next chapter, it's got a lot of Zero in it. Go to One Manga | Your online manga reader. Read free manga online. and look up Vampire knight.

- another thing, i love how you figured out that Kaname, though he acts like a human, is the moster (figuratlivly and physically) and that Zero, though he acts like a monster, is the human. (well, at least he WAS)

[Lotus Nymph]

Haha, it's so hard to compare the two because they ARE different. Zero may seem very emo compared to Kaname, but you also have to remember that Kaname's a pure-blood vampire with an eternity and a half to take care of his problems. Yes, I know he has to deal with a bunch of petty nobles who want to betray him, but he still does have the rationality and a hoard of people who would do anything for him.

Zero didn't have the luxury of time when he found out that he was going to devolve into a senseless man-eating level E vampire. That'd freak me out, too, if I knew I only had X amount of time to live as a rational living being. Also his family was killed and he has an evil twin. Yadayadayada....

If Zero acts emo I think it's justified. He's also a teenager. If he had a perfect life with his family he would still be emo, it's just what teenagers do. Some are just more emo than others.

Sure, Zero is cliched, but so is Yuuki. Kaname isn't as cliched, but I can't imagine his personality type existing in any other context than what it is in Vampire Knight. I definately couldn't imagine meeting someone like him in real life.

Whether you think Kaname or Zero is better is all based on personal judgment. I like Zero better.

[mikowitch]

I'm a Zero fan, but yes, he does always go on about himself, but he's also thoughtful. After all, he likes Yuuki, but she never catches on and always says, 'Kaname-sempai...' in that voice of hers. No wonder he's a bit emo when his only friend is clamouring all over his rival who...manipulates him? Is that the right word...?
As for Kaname, I just got a bad feeling about him when it came between him and Zero. It felt like he was the evil character even though he wasn't. Maybe it's because he's so mysterious and...yes, arrogant. And even though Kaname's open about his feelings, it never seems like he's open at all, but like his real plans are still locked up somewhere and he's only saying half of what he needs to.
In the end, it depends whether you like the Zero type or Kaname type doesn't it?

[tsukiko_lucy]

excellent points by all this may become slightly essay like but i find as i type my ideas make more sense...to me at least

i consistently find myself torn between the two characters and its true that kaname and zero compliment each other despite being light and dark. Both care deeply for yuuki but kaname just teases her with it and knows she idolises him and therefore still ends up manipulating her, whereas zero can't tell yuuki he loves her but in someways by being silent and somewhat moody he gets her attention then doesn't know what to do with the attention, which shows how childish he is and yes selfish. The relationship between the boys is strained (aww hell they HATE each other) and kaname threatens zero to protect yuuki however it does show how manipulative kaname is as he always tells zero "you will NEVER betray yuuki". also i suppose that the two characters have similar life experiences but both dealt with it differently (on the outside at least).

anyways im not entirely sure that ramble has actually answered the original question but meh its my thoughts on the characters and tbh i choose zero but that may be because i want to save him. hey another quality for liking zero, he is needy so you wanna take care of him and save him from being a level e. though mostly its coz i dislike sad endings when things dont turn out like i expect them.

[Akatsuki-chan]

Well it does seem that this is a bit biased... i love them both Kaname more so .. he's just so smart and you know... but Zero's very caring bt i do think he has a reason for beng moody but seriously i think he takes things too far but Kaname's definitley manipulative (althogh i kind of like that about him) basically as it was said it boils down to personal preferance and i think people choose Zero because they are used to is character (almost in every shoujo manga) and hotness and earing which is cool and tatoo although he is different too in some ways from the typical but kaname's got a unigue sense of elegance and projects mystery he's not that similar to typical shoujo ..

[I love Zero Kiryuu]

Hah! I think I prefer Zero to be with Yuuki. I mean Kaname is her brother! It's not right!!!!!!! And plus Zero is way hotter